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Hello,
There are no posts this week as I’ve been enjoying an impromptu holiday in Brighton with my family.
I’m very sorry for taking yet another week off, especially so soon after my last break. To make up for it, or at least to provide some consolation for the time you’ve lost by coming to this website today, below is a film that every British person must watch before the EU Referendum on the 23rd of June. It is obviously biased. The presenter Martin Durkin is known for being rather eccentric. But the arguments made are vital, compelling and very persuasively presented.
I’m not yet sure which way I intend to vote. The issue is too large to come to snap judgements. But I do agree with many of the points Durkin makes, especially those concerning the economic stability of the continent.
As the beginning of the movie makes clear – this will be the most important election the British people have ever taken part in. The prize for getting it right is glittering. The consequences of getting it wrong will be ruinous.
I’d be very interested in how you intend to vote, providing of course that you are happy to share such information.
See you soon,
David. DTMW.
Defend the Modern World 
Enjoy your holiday. I love reading your blog all the way down here in australia! I do hope Brexit happens and i do hope it’s not too late for the once Great Britain to be great again, away from the EU. I do hope Europe can save itself too but i think it is too late. I hope australia learns and that we can save ourselves from Islam.
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Thanks Danno.
Most people here are on the fence about the EU at the moment, although there is a slight lean to the remain side. I think people are just very nervous about change. A lot of things would be left uncertain if we left.
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There are good arguments both for and against leaving the EU. The migrant crisis and the EU’s dire handling of it have swung me in favour of voting to leave. Although then again, being in the EU at least means that most of the immigrants coming here are from the EU itself, which is preferable to mass immigration from the Third World. Personally I think that the British Establishment has no intention of letting us leave the EU, so it will be fascinating if there is a LEAVE vote to see how they get round it and keep us in.
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Yes, the migrant crisis could sway me too.
“Although then again, being in the EU at least means that most of the immigrants coming here are from the EU itself, which is preferable to mass immigration from the Third World” – a very important point. I have raised this with many leavers. Christian Poles are infinitely preferable to Muslim Pakistanis.
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Also leaving the EU won’t stop them at all. The good thing about the EU as a whole is that it has no moral debts with the former colonies of some of its member states and therefore can quite easily, as it does, keep out 2.3 billion Commonwealth individual members. Those who come to Europe, do so under the same visa restrictions as the rest of the world, or as refugees. I think the Brexit campaign is literally playing with a nuclear bomb when is egging on Commonwealth residents in Britain to “speak up for equality and a fair chance”. If they win the referendum is out with a few Poles and in with billions of former subjects knocking at the door demanding their share of the pie.
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Hello David,
I have dedicated a lot of research time to this. Here are my conclusions:
1) Democracy and Sovereignty are very important for buttressing the values we have worked to acquire as a society. Everything else really flows from there. There is no Democracy in EU.
2) Immigration has to be controlled. It’s very disingenuous and virtue-signalling to pretend otherwise.
3) Trade will not collapse because we leave EU, it will readjust. It will take a little while, but the alternative is further and deeper financial dysfunctionality.
4) EU will evolve, so if we stay we are not voting for status-quo. I don’t like the direction of travel.
5) I believe in looking at the world as it is, not as I wish it to be. Therefore, although the idea of a brotherhood of Europeans is lovely with flower and bells on, the reality is that the grouping of countries is now far too heterogeneous with laws that were designed for homogenous criteria , and in time I believe it will be the source of conflicts.
6) There will be some upheaval in the short term if we leave (3 to 5 years perhaps IMO) but the reset will mean a much healthier basis to work from. The alternative is a slow and painful, and conflict-rich death, with huge bills for UK and Germany.
7) It will not be perfect, one way or another. Both sides seem to ask for cast iron guarantees. Are we not adults?
8) In time we may even regroup with some countries on a more coherent basis with the benefit of the past EU experience.
9) In my experience, many people who want IN are doing so on the basis of incorrect information for instance on Security, Human Rights, Labour Laws etc etc.
10) Others who want IN are not that bothered to think about it, have natural resistance to change, suffer from short termism, have large vested interest, or are being rattled by propaganda (IMO the poor quality of the propaganda is in itself a marker of poor arguments for staying IN).
I am voting OUT. Brexit.
I hope this helps.
Love your blog. My favourite.
Laurence
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I think you make a lot of valid points. I especially agree that immigration has to be controlled. I know many Poles (and other EU citizens) who make a great contribution to British life, but there must be some form of oversight. If we dissolve the borders entirely, this will lead to the dissolution of Britain as a political entity. Despite this, I do believe that EU citizens resident in the UK for many years should be given the chance to vote on this issue. it involves them as much as anyone else.
The idea od European unity is certainly desirable. As you say, there is always the possibility of reforming into a more democratic and coherent union – perhaps as various Unions; a Union of Western Europe; a Union of Eastern Europe and a Union of Southern Europe.
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The 3 unions as you envisage, presumably as a natural reflection of cultural similarities between the members sates, is what happened for centuries in Europe with various alliances and did not work out in the end. Furthermore, I’d say that the UK has been a reasonably happy union for 300 years and nobody feel less English, Scottish or Welsh that their ancestors did. Nor I feel less Italian or my wife French after over 20 years in London.
The essence of the EU is that you either believe that the time to consider the Poles, the Greeks and the British as members of your highly dysfunctional family who finally settled their differences after centuries of arguments and have now realised that they are better off together than alone in a world progressively dominated by super powers, or you don’t and do not want to take the benefits and burdens that such union entails.
Brexit is nothing more than the ‘respectable’ face of islandic xenophobia. All Brexit theories have been either debunked or they failed to come up with a plan, vision or forecast for a better Britain outside (maybe because there is one). And if anything, it just shows how little they thought about this. They are like smokers with lung and throat cancer who still won’t give up smoking. They are like jihadist foaming at the mouth who carelessly operate with no regard for the consequences their actions will have on themselves or others; the typical online comment of a Brexiter: ‘I don’t care if the sun is not going to come out tomorrow, just vote out!!”
As an Italian, Brexiters remind me of Sicilians and Sardinians who naively believe that their little islands could cut it alone in the world and balme all their misfortunes on the Italian central government. After all most people in the UK are not entirely happy with all the power in the hands of Westminster, but they know it makes sense and is the lesser evil.
PS: Before anyone goes on a rampage moaning about lack of democracy in the EU, please take the time to inform yourself first before you start ranting incoherently.
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The problem is that smaller and less wealthy states tend to get a poor deal. Germany is fine. The UK is fine. Greece is falling to pieces. This may lead to a resurgence of fascism or other equally pernicious ideologies if left unchecked. Nations lash out when they are humiliated. There is a lot of anti-German sentiment in the EU.
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David,
A computer glitch sadly deleted my comment to your post. In it, I was telling you all about the pro European/EU fervour of my family originated by the traumas of having experienced two WW and how that was passed on to me and how it made me then cry when the Berlin wall came down and Europe was finally reunited and peaceful, as well as it made me feel safer on the morning of 9/11 when I knew that although the Pax Romana post WWII was over at least for a while, at least it was now the EU and the USA to take one or two on the chin for the ‘West’ from the next Don Quixote of geopolitics.
I did tell you all of that as a preamble to my question on the EU referendum. Would you agree/disagree that allowing Commonwealth citizens resident in the UK to vote in the EU referendum, while not allowing EU nationals who lived and worked here for decades, or even worse, forbid UK nationals resident on the continent for more than 15 years to vote the same referendum is masochistically, or maybe I should say, sadistically offensive towards the very people who are the intended product of European self-integration and healing process?
Why a Nigerian nurse or a Bangladeshi student have the right to vote on an issue that could affect the future of the most successful political project in history since it has been literally built on the flesh, blood and bones of Europeans who killed each other for centuries. It enrages me to the point of wanting to joining the ELD or the BNP as a reaction (although I never really would). The Brexit brigade has been feeding them absurd lines to repeat on camera, by which one can see a Pakistani immigrant with conservatives Islamic view being interviewed on TV and complain about discrimination in favour of EU nationals able to reside in Britain without visa restrictions at the expenses of ‘Commonwealth citizens’.
Who the f**k are you? Where were you when my great grand uncles and fathers fought and die so that women could one day wear miniskirts, I could listen to Led Zeppelin and my daughter could grow up in a safe, tolerant, civilised London with her Italian dad and her French mother? Why a Nigerian nurse should have the right to influence a decision that is going to affect millions of the descendant of those whose deaths have enabled the creation of the most successful political project in human history, which represent ‘The’ model for the best achievable balance between capitalism and social responsibility?
The world want to be us, not them. They want our cars, our art, our music, our schools, our cities, our rule of law, our democracies, our freedoms, our prosperity, our football, our fashion, our food and wine, our philosophers and writers, our monuments and buildings. It took us nearly 3,000 years to build it and some might say we build it with their blood too. And while that is undeniably true to an extent, as we do not longer shape our future, they should not be demanding or led to believe they are entitled to shape ours.
I support globalisation, freedom of movement and equal rights, but it is our dysfunctional family, not theirs. Even in this world of 24/7 interconnectivity and profound change, a Greek fisherman has still infinitely more in common with a Scottish aristocrat, than the latter has in common with the king of Tonga. Britain is paying an heavy price for its colonial past and allowing these people to moan by ballot box is just an example of the kind of currency used. It should not be paid at the expenses of the rest of Europe/the EU, especially when most of its nations never had any colonies.
Long rant, I know, but it’s late and I had it.
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“Would you agree/disagree that allowing Commonwealth citizens resident in the UK to vote in the EU referendum, while not allowing EU nationals who lived and worked here for decades, or even worse, forbid UK nationals resident on the continent for more than 15 years to vote the same referendum is masochistically, or maybe I should say, sadistically offensive towards the very people who are the intended product of European self-integration and healing process?” – Yes I would! I think that’s a very fine point. Few people have bothered to consider this injustice. I do believe that long-term EU residents in the UK have at least the same right to a say as Commonwealth citizens. Absolutely.
I also support a form of economic globalisation. It’s inevitable and can be very beneficial to world peace if it is organised and set about in the right way. Unfortunately, at the moment, it is being enforced undemocratically. This will always produce a backlash.
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It was touched on in the movie, but the real question is why major party leaders from both sides of British politics (and indeed the US President) believe that Britain should stay in the EU? Without sounding conspiratorial I do wonder whether there is more than more affordable roaming charges, and a free flow of travel, work and trade privileges among EU citizens that is behind their positions.
Personally as a non-British subject, and a Commonwealth citizen who does not live in Europe that Britain should leave, but the chorus from the establishment makes me wonder why they are so steadfast in their decision to stay. The examples of Switzerland and Norway are good reason to leave economically, the decline of the European project as a fuel-injector to growth is another, and of course porous borders and democratic control of laws are the nail in the coffin for me, but I am still mystified as to why the political elite believe its better to stay.
Good luck to you Britons, I will respect the democratic outcome, I do hope there is concerted push there for you to engage in the vote. This is a big decision, I am somewhat relieved that I do not have to make it myself.
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The EU definitely bribes and cajoles the political elite to do its bidding. There is no question of that. David Cameron has been leaned on. He used to be anti-EU, but his position has suddenly changed. It’s bizarre.
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Being anti EU is one thing, blowing up one its pillars (UK’s membership) is quite another. I don’t see the scaremongering they talk about. If the UK leaves, those morons in the Middle East will see it a victory that we are crumbling under pressure. The geopolitical stability of the planet is at stake here. Shake it at its foundations just to keep IDS happy is lunacy.
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@Guidowines – yes, maybe you are right…as some one who’s just 40, I saw the European project as infinitely exciting when I was younger, though there are systemic problems which are not being addressed using the current model (lack of direct democracy) for over-arching decisions that are made (in Brussels).
It depends on the EU’s united stance on non-Western immigration for one thing – I am sure we can all agree on this at this time, based on what is happening demographically.
While long term stagnant growth is not ideal (due to the population shrinkage of Europe) Japan seems to have a plan in place to manage a loss of about one fifth of its population over the next 30 years. All this without mass emigration of cheap labour as per the US/European model…perhaps the EU needs to look at another model as this one is not working.
Whats is IDS?
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In southern Europe we are a lot less scared about migration from the Middle East/Islam because we are all a little Arab-ish/North Africans ourselves and the Catholic church still rule strong (unlike Church of England here). If Europe was decadently booming as between fall of Berlin Wall and 9/11, give’em 5 years in Disneyland and they would all have forgotten about Islam and piety. The problem has been created in the UK with its ultra-hyper-uber-PC attitude (i.e. “we are sorry we messed up your countries with the empire and still want one badly, hence you can come over if you are from the Commonwealth”) have taken in millions of people without requiring them to integrate and now that times are economically hard, they struggle to find their place in the Western World (thanks to their bigot parents) so they join ISIS. Also if you think immigration/refugees problem is bad in Britain, just Google Lampedusa + refugees and look what real migration looks like.
I’d also recommend to watch Paxman’s documentary on the EU (BBC iPlayer) and see how the most sceptic man in Britain has to concede that it is a pretty impressive achievement and does rather well given it deals with 28 nations, 560 million people and 27 languages/legal systems/rules/etc.
EU is not growing as fast because the world economy – bar those new economies that claim a 200% GDP increase in the last 10 years, because it went from $1 to $3 – is not growing as fast. The largest, oldest and most stable economy in the world cannot keep growing at the same rate forever. Still, give me a corrupted, geriatric, morally decadent EU instead of Sharia law any day.
IDS = Ian Duncan Smith
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@Defend the Modern World “The problem is that smaller and less wealthy states tend to get a poor deal. Germany is fine. The UK is fine. Greece is falling to pieces. This may lead to a resurgence of fascism or other equally pernicious ideologies if left unchecked. Nations lash out when they are humiliated. There is a lot of anti-German sentiment in the EU”
I couldn’t agree more and Austria’s recent elections just proves that unequivocally. The Greeks are learning the manners of capitalistic government the hard way, but thee will be kept alive. What is not needed now is Britain sending a signal to the world that the European project is a failure. It will be either exploited or worse misunderstood by these fascist fanatics, conspiracy theorists and anyone else looking for someone to blame for their misfortunes.
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If Britain had got reform allowing us to ensure more sovereignty and ending our supreme court’s subservience to the European Courts I’d vote Remain. As it is I’m edging towards Leave, because of the Islamic invasion of Europe. We need control of our borders. At the same time I would have liked the idea of a loose confederation of European states working for our mutual benefit, not the benefit of hordes of Muslims, and without the meddling multicultural idiocy. Brussels is corrupt and the Euro has decimated economies. So on balance, Leave, but I believe Remain will win, and I foresee the EU having endless crises forever basically, until it collapses or retreats somewhat. (the fear of Turkey eventually being allowed should be considered too)
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Seems both leave & stay voters believe their choice stops unwanted migration. Which is it? And is that the biggest motivator? If so, stay or leave is a distraction to a bigger problem.
Here in the states, we seem to be having a smaller version of your fight… but perhaps with the same future outcome. I have noticed that among the socialists, as much as they talk about unifying this-that-and-the-other, when one looks at each group composing the majority of the socialist voters, they are segregated by “cultural” differences… in other words, i find them to be much more “racist” and “sexists” and “ageist” and “ability-ist” or whatever, than the people they accuse on the “Live Free or Die” side… simply because these “inclusive” socialist groups create non-profit organizations around individual group tastes and beliefs. The inclusive part is usually an advertisement that can’t get filled if, say, a black person isn’t interested in Celtic or bluegrass music, for example.
I am thoroughly confused about the world and people much more now in my 50’s than ever before. And, yeah, my family was hunted and killed during their lives in Eastern Europe. I am a descended of them, living in the USA. My family was not liked by the Nazi’s nor by the Soviets. I personally despise both ideologies, and recognize them as actually the same, only one is more isolationist while the other controls everything on a global scale. Same crap, different flies.
I think, and this is going out perhaps another gen or two, that overpopulating the world, regardless how nations and continental regions behave, will take its course however it needs to. If there was a clear-cut moralistic answer, we’d have applied it by now.
I am half-way through the video, btw, David. It explains some things, but like all political and actiivistic multi-media these days, it’s a brilliant production of sway. Not saying they are wrong, or right, entirely… just saying. And why the long wait in-between being able to vote “in or out” again??? Good luck over there, David!!
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