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Air force, Battle, Defend the modern world, Hezbollah, IDF, Israel IDF, Israel military, Lebanon, NYT, NYT cartoon, Polizei, Syria, Times, Turkey military prowess, Turkey vs Israel, War, World politics
Should they desire it, the modern Turkish army could storm Europe up to the borders of Paris. None of the countries separating France from Erdogan’s Islamic republic are capable of opposing the Turkish military even if they acted in concert. In both quality of arms and manpower, the Turks are superior. Hard to believe? Let’s look at some statistics:
The Turkish armed forces have at their command over 800,000 troops. The army is equipped with over 10,000 tanks and APCs. The air force flies over 400 warplanes (mainly upgraded F-15/16s) and 450 modern combat helicopters. The Turkish navy has over 168 war vessels. As part of NATO, the Turkish air force also administers 200 ‘shared’ US nuclear missiles.
Compared to the militaries of the UK or Germany, Turkey is a superpower.
Turkish strength matters for two reasons; first, its neighbourly position to Europe. Second, because any deportation or change in the status of Muslims in Europe will inevitably tread upon Turkish toes.
A clear majority of Germany’s Muslims are of Turkish descent. Unlike the Algerians of France, these migrants are therefore backed and supported by a near-by state with a modern military. Germany’s own military is nowhere near as large. For an equivalent situation, imagine if Pakistan was in the same geographical position as the Czech republic and had a military larger and more powerful than the UK. Could Britain afford to address the Pakistani situation in its own territory without taking into account the strength and nearness of the Pakistani state? Of course not.
Turks are loudly offended by even the slightest gesture of support for the Kurds and Armenians and have successfully bullied Germany on both of these issues. Imagine how much more virulent and threatening its anger would be in the case of explicitly anti-Turkish measures by the German state…
Alongside its military prowess, the Islamic superpower has a very dynamic economy. Unlike the struggling nations of Europe, the Turkish economy has experienced rapid growth in recent years. Unemployment, once a massive domestic problem, is now dwindling to a manageable intensity.
On the back of this growth, the movie industry in Turkey is also beginning to flourish and has led to some calling the country the ‘Hollywood of the Islamic world’. Sophisticated blockbusters are being produced which depict America, Israel and the Jews as evil and the Palestinians and Muslims as saintly victims.
Ever since the flotilla raid in which Turkish Islamists were killed by IDF commandos, Israel and Turkey, once in (awkward) alliance with one and other, have been in a state of cold hostility. While it seems next to impossible that the two countries will ever exchange direct blows, Israel has reason to feel nervous over the Turkey’s switch to pro-Palestinian advocacy in international diplomacy.
What should the West do about Turkey? Well, for one, I suggest the country is removed from NATO at the first opportunity. The cold war is dead now and the logic of the alliance died with it. While the West is kind and generous to Ankara, we rarely see kindness flowing the other way. When ISIS besieged the Kurdish town of Kobane, the inaction of the Turkish military (stationed only a few miles to the North) was chilling to the blood. Turkey also continues to occupy Northern Cyprus in contravention of international law and against Western demands for negotiations.
If we need to have an alliance in Asia Minor, I suggest we switch our focus to Turkey’s greatest historic victim – Armenia; the first Christian majority country in history and a genuine oasis of Western civilisation in a swelling sea of Islamic hatred.
D, LDN.
Defend the Modern World 
Yes.!
First disband the NATO as a Cold War relic. This will simultaneously reassure an insecure Russia(who’s alliance we badly need to tackle Islamic fundamentalism) and expel Turkey from this pseudo alliance with the Western powers.
After some cooling-off period, reassemble the (almost) same alliance, with Russia as an observer state and Turkey firmly out.
Let the Turks form an ‘Islamic’ alliance with the Arab and Muslim states and see how it pans out for them, and see how generous the Arab states behave with the Turks. I bet they wouldn’t enjoy the company.
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“Let the Turks form an ‘Islamic’ alliance with the Arab and Muslim states and see how it pans out for them” – This seems likely. Even before the flotilla crisis, the Turks were moving towards the Arabs. Turkey fears Iran and the Kurds. Political Iranism seeks to unite the Kurds (an Iranian race) and all other Iranian peoples. This would be devastating to Turkey. If the Kurds rise up, Turkey will be plunged into a civil war that will make Syria look like a picnic.
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Just like Muslim immigrants hate the West but would personally prefer to immigrate to Western countries, the Turks may claim to love the Arabs, but would prefer to stay in an Western alliance, for all the benefits it provides them.
Their Arab ‘allies’ may promise the Turks a lot, but, would ultimately be a drain on them, much like Austria-Hungary was a drain on Germany in WW1.
Let it happen!
If the Turks love the Arabs so much, let them go join them, for all we in the West care.
Also, Turkeys economic growth is due to a large part due to enforced secularization, Westernization and de-Arabization policies of the great secularist and probably an Ex-Muslim, Ataturk, Mustafa Kemal Pasha, But, the current regime is reversing all his wise policies. While Kemal wanted Turkey to be more like the West, Erdogan wants it to be more like Saudi Arabia. If he succeeds, all this economic growth will vanish. Turkey will be like Saudi Arabia, but without the oil.
Also, just like Pakistan was the conduit for funding and land route for the Afghan Mujahideen, Turkey is playing the same role with ISIS, with the hope that it will be insulated from all the troubles in Syria & Iraq: It will not be!
In 20 years time, Turkey could well become another Pakistan.
All the more reason to get Russia on board and Turkey out!
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Russia should rightly be a part of the West, that’s true. But we cannot overlook the crimes that are being committed in Ukraine. If we are to see a Western-Russian reconciliation, then Russian democracy must be thoroughly reformed and its foreign policy aligned with our own.
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Dude, if we scrap Nato, Turkey will be the last of our problems…Poutin will juts have all the opportunities to bully the Baltic states and so on…In addition, Turkey will get closer to Other repressive muslim states and it won’t be as manageable as it is now…my opinion is simple: do nothing and hope for Erdogan to be toppled by a democratic non-muslim coup.
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I don’t support scrapping NATO, just removing Turkey from it. They have nothing we need. They typically side with our enemies.
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The ‘crimes’ being committed in Ukraine is mainly because the E.U and this anachronistic cold-war alliance NATO has been treating Russia as if it’s an enemy state and antagonizing them. Due to theirs history, the Russians are always acutely sensitive to external threats, particularly from the West.
What did they expect? That Russia will take all this posturing and threats lying-down and not reacting, especially with a Russian nationalist (but pragmatist) like Putin at the helm!.
Treat the Russians with respect and like a potential great power that they are, and they will be one of our staunchest allies in the coming war with Islamic fundamentalism.
If a medieval theocracy like Saudi Arabia can be fawned upon and treated like one of our ‘realiable allies’, when all they do is to stab us in the back with their fake smiles, why can’t an honorable nation like Russia be treated with some respect?
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The Ukrainian people (in free elections) voted to move towards the West of Europe and away from Russian domination. Russia has no right, no right at all, to oppose that.
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I agree.
The Ukraininans had a very bad history under the Russians both before and during Communism, and rightly scared of the Russians and distrust them.
After the fall of Communism, when Ukraine declared its independence, either due to chaos or confusion, the Russian state let them be and would have let them be, had it not felt that the EU was cynically using the Ukraininans as tool to threaten Russian sovereignty and Russian influence in its border areas.
Any extension of the NATO towards Russian borders scares the Russians and the current situation is a response to that.
I’m not supporting every action that the Russians state takes. Far from it!
All I’m saying is that the Russians have to dealt with tact and respect, (compare and contrast how our leaders are grovelIng before the Saudi Monarchy)
If done so, the Russians could be our staunchest allies against the coming vicious war against Islamic fundamentalism.
Russia has to be made a part of the West. They are so much culturally similar to us, that it is a feasible project. If done so successfully, the Russo-Ukraininan border could as irrelevant as border between France and Germany today.
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you know nothing about TURKEY……..TURKEY has no any F-15. Fighter Jet…….TURKEY will buy superior 100 F-35 and TURKEY is developing its own 5th gen stealth TAI TFX Fighter Jet…..
and TURKEY doesnt afraid of weak Iran…….there are over 35 million of TURKS in Iran ..TURKS conquered Iran in 999 and ruled until 1925….TURKEY,,Azerbaijan can take half of Iran in a month
and learn the History Ottoman Empire saved sunni Kurds from the Shitee Safawids (Iran ) in 1514-1515
Sunni Kurds never can be unite with Shitee Iran ……Iran can use only communist Kurdish-Armenian PKK Terrorists against TURKEY
and there will never be a civil war in TURKEY………Because of Turkish population is 97% of Sunni and TURKEY is not rootless Arabian country like Syria ,,Iraq,,Lebanon,,Yemen ,,etc
and the TURKS are not stupid Arabs…..TURKS have 2200 yearly state and military tradition
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Well, I disagree with your analysis. Iran is increasingly close to the Kurds. They are an Iranic people. A civil war in Turkey is ultimately very likely. Unless of course, you allow the Kurds a state of their own. Why do you need so much territory?
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Just found this post and thought it was interesting and wanted to share my opinions as a Turk, on your response there. A civil war in Turkey isn’t necesseraly likely, the more likely prospect is an organised nationalistic terrorist movement however, even that is again, not likely because of the limited, albeit increasing political presence the Kurds are starting to have within the Turkish government, the most notable one being HDP which roughly translates to Democratic Peoples Party. Also given the fact that a lot of Kurds migrated from their majority provinces to more industrilized western provinces of Turkey i really don’t see a civil war per se, in Turkey’s future regarding the Kurds. There is still a lot of pacif racisim toward both Kurds and Armenians though which, is an issue that needs to adressed. In regards to needing territory, Turkey doesn’t need the territory Turkey can’t even use most of eastern territories effectively, that being said however Kurdic people haven’t asked for a state of their own, there were terrorist elements that terrotized both Kurdic and Turkish people in eastern regions, the majority of Kurdic people never demaned that they be independent form Tukey if a day comes that they do, through the proper political channels than a discussion about this issue would be called for. As for your post and your points in it I mainly agree, It is unfortunately true that our foreing policy has been quite aweful, our treatment of both Armenians and Kurds even though I said is improving now has been quite short of monstrous, that and given the fact that we still haven’t owned up to the Armenian genocide no wonder we are not liked by foreign countries. My country has acted and still is acting like a spoiled child unfortunately, but it is still young and most of the political base is old. I do believe that this old and nationalistic base is going to change and Turkey will change shape in the near future to become a more tolerant country.
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Very interesting comment. Thank you. If people like yourself were in charge of Turkey, I think a lot of problems would be solved at a stroke.
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Turkish has introduced as barbarian to the world but there are a lot of signs that we had the superior democracy and also tolerancy to the other nations and also religions so that a jewish,christian or a person who has got any other beliefs lived and will live in these lands with peace and respect.Turkey is not a notorious country.We lived with honour and respect the minorities at all times.
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Turkey is certainly more European in its manners than other Muslim states (Iran, Saudi etc..), but the fact remains that the current regime in Ankara is Islamist and radical, and this is a great concern for the EU.
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Thank God that my country has found the right way. Resign FTW. Why are you Europeans so afraid. Is Turkey that bad, huh? Look at Israel, USA, Iran and China.
Israel is still occupying Palestina! Killing thousands of people, but no they are not evil as long as they Muslims.
USA is the biggest warmongering country. You guys blame Russia for a simple covert operation. Look at the American foreign policy. How many countries have the USA invaded? How many people have they killed? They have enslaved the EU. The greedy American warindustry demands war and therefore the USA will always support “terrorists” and wage unjust war.
Iran is just Iran. Do something about it mister USA.
And China. They suppress minority’s. Kill anyone who is against the “communist” party. Takes lands from their neighbors, Tibet anyone?
But why doesn’t do the west not condemn the hideous crimes. They can’t and will not. Because China is a economic beast.
So guys don’t come here and begin to point fingers at countries. Look at you own countries governments first.
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Thank God that my country has found the right way. Resign FTW. Why are you Europeans so afraid. Is Turkey that bad, huh? Look at Israel, USA, Iran and China.
Israel is still occupying Palestina! Killing thousands of people, but no they are not evil as long as they Muslims.
USA is the biggest warmongering country. You guys blame Russia for a simple covert operation. Look at the American foreign policy. How many countries have the USA invaded? How many people have they killed? They have enslaved the EU. The greedy American warindustry demands war and therefore the USA will always support “terrorists” and wage unjust war.
Iran is just Iran. Do something about it mister USA.
And China. They suppress minority’s. Kill anyone who is against the “communist” party. Takes lands from their neighbors, Tibet anyone?
But why doesn’t do the west not condemn the hideous crimes. They can’t and will not. Because China is a economic beast.
So guys don’t come here and begin to point fingers at countries. Look at you own countries governments first.
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Thank God that my country has found the right way. Recep Erdogan FTW. Why are you Europeans so afraid. Is Turkey that bad, huh? Look at Israel, USA, Iran and China.
Israel is still occupying Palestina! Killing thousands of people, but no they are not evil as long as they kill Muslims.
USA is the biggest warmongering country ever. You guys blame Russia for a simple covert operation. Look at the American foreign policy. How many countries have the USA invaded? How many people have they killed? They have enslaved the EU. The greedy American warindustry demands war and therefore the USA will always support “terrorists” and wage unjust war.
Iran is just Iran. Do something about it mister USA.
And China. They suppress minority’s. Kill anyone who is against the “communist” party. Takes lands from their neighbors, Tibet anyone?
But why doesn’t the west not condemn these hideous crimes. They can’t and will not. Because China is a economic beast and they are at their knees looking at China.
So guys don’t come here and begin to point fingers at countries. Look at you own countries governments first.
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Israel has reasons to be nervous about security. America has made mistakes and many Americans admit as much. The trouble with Turkey is that it occupies Kurdistan and has an Islamist government. Don’t get me wrong. If Turkey )or any Muslim country for that matter) elected a liberal and secular government, I would applaud and wish that regime all the best. Sadly Erdogan is not that kind of leader. I don’t hate Turks (or Persians, Arabs or Pakistanis). I sympathise with liberals from all countries. You must fight to liberalise Turkey and keep your freedoms.
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I am Kurd myself living in Turkey and I a happy with the situation right now. Yes Turkey was bad before when they suppressed minority’s and that was with Mustafa Kemal Ataturk party. It when the army coup d’état the government many times. Do you know how many people got killed. All this Kurd problems comes from that time. Now Turkey is more stable and that frightens its neighbors. Before you could even speak Kurdish in Turkey and now you learn Kurdish in schools and universities. Kurdish television is part of the Turkish world now.
And Turkey is not occupying Kurdistan. There haven’t been a Kurdish country ever in the history in that region they claim. An the region they claim is over half the country.
The Kurds who is playing the role of suppressed people should watch China.
These guys are just separists and nothing more!
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First of all Turkey is not occupying “Kurdistan”. Because there has never been a state called Kurdistan in that region the separatists claim, which is almost half of Turkey. These separatists should take a long look at China, who suppress and kills minorities. I am a Kurd myself and I live Turkey and I am happy of the situation right now as Erdogan and his party got 50 percent of the votes (hell YEAH).
The Kurd’s in Turkey has more freedom than ever before. They can see Kurdish television, learn the Kurdish language and culture in schools and universities.
Turkey will no longer be the puppet of the WEST! To hell with your secularism. How many people did the secular state not kill in the past, huh? Your precious Ataturk was nothing but a Greek racist and puppet of the west. Him and his party hunted Kurdish and Armenian families. The Turkish army was established on secular (Ataturks) principles. Every time a government tried to change that the army organized a coup d’état This happened a lot of times back then and I will agree that Turkey was bad and a mess before.
Now Turkey has become more stable. Turkey has potential to become a superpower, and this frightens you guys, just because a Muslim superpower equals a terrorist/dictatorship state. Muslims has been under the thumb of the west for too long.
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First of all Turkey is not occupying “Kurdistan”. Because there has never been a state called Kurdistan in that region the separatists claim, which is almost half of Turkey. These separatists should take a long look at China, who suppress and kills minorities. I am a Kurd myself and I live Turkey and I am happy of the situation right now as Erdogan and his party got 50 percent of the votes (hell YEAH).
The Kurd’s in Turkey has more freedom than ever before. They can see Kurdish television, learn the Kurdish language and culture in schools and universities.
Turkey will no longer be the puppet of the WEST! To hell with your secularism. How many people did the secular state not kill in the past, huh? Your precious Ataturk was nothing but a Greek racist and puppet of the west. Him and his party hunted Kurdish and Armenian families. The Turkish army was established on secular (Ataturks) principles. Every time a government tried to change that the army organized a coup d’état This happened a lot of times back then and I will agree that Turkey was bad and a mess before.
Now Turkey has become more stable. Turkey has potential to become a superpower, and this frightens you guys, just because a Muslim superpower equals a terrorist/dictatorship state. Muslims was under the thumb of the west for to long.
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Well, that speaks volumes.. But I’d have to disagree with all these crazy comments about Attaturk..
That is just wrong. Hell, it is so wrong..
You should be thanking whoever is it you worship that Turkey was able to produce a Mustafa Kemal Attaturk at the right place, at the right time,
Nobody is perfect but without that guy, there would have been no difference between Turkey and the rest of the Middle East..
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I admire Ataturk for his modernising efforts. His treatment of racial and cultural minorities was not acceptable.
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