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Are shia more moderate?, Civilisation, Counter-Jihad, Defend the modern world, Hezbollah, Iran, Israel, Lebanon, Middle East military balance, Nuclear program, Persia, Persians, Shia vs Sunni
It has been put to me more than once that Shia Muslims represent a more civilised portion of the Islamic multitude than the Sunni majority. For evidence, those who hold to this argument present the cases of Iran and Lebanon.
Despite their troubles and imperfect governments, it is undoubtedly the case that these two countries enjoy a higher and more recognisably (to a European) civilised form of social order that the lowly standards of the Islamic world. Iran, regardless of its theocratic state, rarely experiences beheadings and terrorism. Lebanon, despite Hezbollah, has retained a level of social peace conducive to a flourishing tourism industry. It is less surprising to hear of an Iranian or Lebanese intellectual being nominated for a Nobel prize than it would be to hear of the same honour bestowed on a Saudi or Afghan. And when one looks at a photograph of Tehran or Beirut, it is easy to imagine one is looking at a city in Eastern or Southern Europe.
In Iraq, where 70% of the population is Shia, the civil war further revealed this distinction. During Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s reign of terror, almost all of the acts of terrorism in the conflict were Sunni against Shia. And when the Shia did respond, it was more often with law and state, rather than bomb and machete.
It’s all very convincing isn’t it? To be sure, an increasing number are very convinced of it. I’m not yet one of them though and I have 3 reasons to support this stubbornness:
1. Despite the undeniably unique aspects of their religious system, Shia Muslims nevertheless revere and follow the Qur’an as their infallible manifesto of life and behaviour.
2. Despite the moderation of the Iranian population, the Iranian state continues to stone women and hang gays for explicitly Shia Islamic reasons.
3. (related to No. 2) Shia Islam exercises Sharia law just as fervently as Sunni Islam and believes it should supersede civil legislation.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t add greater nuance to our dealings with Shia countries than with Sunni ones, because we probably should. But I don’t believe (or have yet to be convinced) that a Shia country can serve as a reliable ally of the West. Too much separates us and that which does so is of crucial importance.
D, LDN.
Defend the Modern World 
I agree and yet disagree with you on certain points. A Shia theocratic state is almost as bad as a Sunni one. However, given a choice I would prefer the Shia to the Sunnis, for these reasons..
1. The Shia worldview is generally anti-Sunni, (the Sunnis were and are responsible for must of their persecution) instead of being anti-kafir like it is among the Sunnis.
Because, historically, the Sunnis murdered their beloved Imams, this anti-Sunni worldview is rooted in their religion and will never really go away. Therefore they are less threatening to the rest of the non-Muslim world as their anger and hate is generally directed towards the Sunnis.
2. The Shia religion has still the concept of Ijtihad or reform, hence is theoretically possible for them to move with the times. Some of the Shia sects like the Ismailis are very westernized and modern due to this very fact.
But the Sunnis are generally stuck in the seventh century as any reform for them is ‘biddath’ or ‘innovation’ and innovation is frowned upon by the Sunnis, increasingly due the influence of Wahabbi Saudis in the Sunni world.
3. In many case Shias tend to be syncretic and readily incorporate rituals of other faiths into their customs.
Because the story of Imam Hussein and his martyrdom is closely akin to the story of Jesus & his martyrdom, the Shia are sympathetic to Christianity.
The Shia habit of venerating shrines and saints and portraiture(verboten as ‘Shrik’ to the fundamentalist Sunnis) makes them close to the polytheistic Hindus.
The Shia love of philosophy (as Imam Ali was himself supposed to be a philosopher), makes them close to the philosophical religions like Buddhism or Tsoism. Therefore the Shia easily integrate into non-Muslim cultures than the Sunnis, as their belief system makes them less likely to hate the non-Muslim cultures.
These reasons, and they are others, which will make them, on the balance, more reliable and consistent allies to the West & other non-Muslim states than the false smiles and backstabbing of our current ‘allies-in-the-war-against-terror’ Saudi Arabia & Pakistan, both predominantly Sunni states.
As you said, a nuanced approach is needed!
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Very impressive analysis.
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Islam MUST be fought on all fronts, physically, mentally and emotionally, by employing humour, thus showing muslims for what they truly ARE: Here is my contribution, a link to a FREE Koran satire/parody “The Lost Verses of the Koran” – https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9j-lWF82PJARURJaGJuWjJwNXM/view
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I agree. Islam must be combated on many fields. Humour is vital.
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Why are you posting wrong picture about SHIA Muslims ? These pictures don’t have any significance, you should look at all aspects. Not everyone is SHIA you are calling everyone SHIA are you mad ? You shouldn’t do that these are not allowed in SHIA these acts are not allowed.
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The photograph is of Shia Muslims engaging in a Shia religious practice.
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Just a point: Not all Shia Muslims agree with this “ritual” or “practice”- it is heavily debated and I think by posting this picture you’ve created a very biased argument.
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Why do you distort the image of the Shiites?
1 – These are not Shiite religious ceremonies at all. Rather, harm to the soul, and this contradicts the approach followed by the people of the household who forbid self-harm and killing people without cause.
2 – Only the followers of Muqtada al-Sadr, who has political influence in the Iraqi and Bahraini government, are beating themselves up while they represent a minority in Shiite societies and are considered barbarians in Shiite thought, because Shiite thought depends on the reason and the non-violent approach advocated by the people of the house. In addition, it is the duty of the Shiite to study about His doctrine is to educate himself and look at all topics of medicine, mathematics and religion, and he studies about the divine religions, Hindu religions and others, and all this is to make the Shiite individual a good and rational person. Shiite, when you see the Shiite child knows what you do not know.
Imam Ali says: “Our enemies are not the Christians and the Jews, our enemy is ignorance.”
Imam Ali says again: “There are two types of people, either you have a brother in religion, or you have a brother in humanity.”
Therefore, the subject of religious education and modern education is very important in the secular Shiite and Islamic Shiite societies, and one of the duties of the Shiites is knowledge in various types of sciences such as mathematics, physics, chemistry, religion and other things that the Shiite must study and educate himself, and this is one of the commandments of the Maraji and the Ahl al-Bayt.
3- Shiite governments do not represent all Shiites, but decisions to kill those who practice adultery are the right thing to do, and this is mentioned in the Bible. Likewise, the Iranian government does not contradict gays, provided that they do not practice their homosexuality in public and stage protests and demonstrations in support of gays, simply you can exercise your rights as a gay Iranian citizen in your home only .
4- There are many civil Shiite movements and currents, such as the Amal movement led by Musa al-Sadr and Nabih Berri, and the Zaydi currents in Yemen and Saudi Arabia that call for divine tolerance, because in their view the current imams are advocates of tolerance between human beings and it is not necessary to distinguish between a Shiite and a Christian.
In addition to the Ismaili / Druze Shiite currents that have influence in several governments in Lebanon and Syria, they are secular currents and the majority of Ismailis consider the veil unnecessary and call for liberation and rational thought (compatible with the local Twelver Shiites in Iraq and Iran), in addition to the fact that in ancient times they were able Spreading their civic calls and establishing Shiite civil movements aiming at equality among people. Therefore, many Twelver Shiite scholars, Ismailis and others have emerged in the global human civilization because:
1 – The nonviolent calls made by the people of the house and published in international circles.
2 – Encouraging the Shiites to study and educate in various types of sciences, as mentioned above.
Likewise, the Shiites in Europe and America are not persecuted because they are not aggressive. Likewise, there are good relations between the two sides, and I hope that they will continue because nonviolence is one of the intellectual foundations of the Shiites.
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I accidentally searched for the word Shia on Google. In the pictures section, I came across these violent images. If Shia is not like this at all, several stupid people do these violent behaviors and the Shia should pay the price. I am a Muslim, I am a Shiite, Islam is perfect but I am not, if something goes wrong I should appreciate it, not my religion
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Hello to all who are reading my message. Islam is a perfect religion and all religions testify to it (in their holy books). Please read a little before judging anything or anyone. To understand Islam and Shiism, be sure to refer to history books.You will know in Islamic history books that there was no Sunni at all, but it was made by a series of self-proclaimed people, and all these crimes that are recorded in the name of Muslims in the world are the work of Sunni and Sunni sects in the name of Wahhabism and Shia in general. Strongly disagrees with their thoughts.To better understand this issue, please refer to historical books and read the story of Allameh Hilli who appears in the Sunni parliament and debates with them in the presence of the King of Iran and convinces Shah Ismail Safavid and the Sunnis themselves realize their mistake. .Unfortunately, some sites are falsely propagating against the Shiites and distorting the image of the Shiites in the eyes of the world, but believe me, this is not the case.I am at your service with all my heart and desire to answer your questions about Islam and the Shiite religion on my Instagram address.:
@m.javad_kamalinik
Please visit my page and ask your questions and I promise to answer all your questions on any topic.
Glad you asked me a question
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“Civilized like Europeans” what the fuck is wrong with you.., condescending fuck.
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