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Christianity and Islam, Civilisation, Counter-Jihad, Counterjihad, Defend the modern world, ISIS, Islam, Islamism, Islamists, Koran, Muslims, Quran, Terror, Terrorism, Women
Last week, a commenter on this blog stressed how important it was for those concerned with the resurgence of Islam to read the Qur’an in its complete form. He was correct to do so, and his recommendation is sound.
I bought a Qur’an many years ago – the Penguin translation by NJ Dawood – and read most of the Suras in a random order. This was before I started writing about Islam, and my only motivation in visiting the text was to see how intolerant it was against Women. As you’ll know, there is a notorious Sura titled ‘Women’, and this contains most of the references to sexual equality in the whole work. The most famous passage from this chapter is undoubtedly verse 4:34 –
“Men have authority over women because God has made one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them, forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them”.
It’s strange to think that it was 1400 years ago that some gentleman in the Arabian desert wrote these words, and yet every detail in his articulation now affects over a billion living citizens of the world. The sentence “They guard their unseen parts…” has by-itself chosen the dress for a massive portion of female humanity. That person in the desert, scraping these words onto the bones of an animal, or onto papyrus or stone tablets, decided then what a Muslim woman in Leicester will wear today. Such are the giddying quantum mechanics of history.
As for examples of the promotion of violence, we are rather spoilt for choice. The anti-Islam writer Daniel Pipes collected the following excerpts:
“Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim’s “inveterate enemies” (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to “arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere” (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to “seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly” (Sura 4:90). “Fight them until Islam reigns supreme” (Sura 2:193). “Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers” (Sura 8:12).
I’ve no longer got my copy of the Penguin translation. I think I gave it to Age Concern just before I left for University. I will re-order the same volume and would strongly advise anyone concerned about Islam to order a copy too. It is hugely irritating to have one’s Islamophobia returned with the remark “You don’t know anything about Islam”. That was never true. I discovered as much as I need to about the Islamic religious system many years ago.
Nevertheless, a good knowledge of Qur’anic quotation is vital to successfully conduct a live argument with the faithful. A Muslim does not consider this text as Christians consider the New Testament. Muslims devoutly believe that God wrote the Qur’an and that every sentence must be the absolute truth. Given its purported author, Muslims also hold that it cannot be argued with or re-interpreted. It must be followed without question. This makes Qur’anic criticism by far the most effective means of confronting Islam as a manner of life and thought.
D, LDN.
To Understand Qur’an a person must read it in Arabic . Because other languages can not give the exact meaning for the Verses. Even the title of the Sorah(Chapter ) they keep it in Arabic .Sorah Al Baqara they don’t translate to English which means Cow. Sora of the cow.
If it was written by God, then its meaning would be crystal clear in any language it was translated into. In fact, the koran was compiled from the clouded memories of many different men, and then changed and revised repeatedly.
Men wrote the koran, not God, that is why it is such an unintelligible senseless and hateful mess.
Indeed, and from what I have read of it, the meaning is rather straightforward. It’s not a mystical text.
l forgive and pray for the one who calls me kaffer.
Well, Dr Mark Durie, who is an Anglican pastor/theologian and fluent Arabic speaker, has studied the Qu’ran and all its associated documentation. He is, in effect, an Islamic scholar. His conclusions, however, are no different to those made on this blog.
Your comment, therefore, seems to want to downplay, or outright reject the notion that a translation can be as legitimate as the original. But one doesn’t need to know Russian, for example, to know that Tolstoy was probably the greatest novelist of all time. And being able to come to that conclusion in no way denies the fact that, yes, War and Peace should be read in Russian if possible.
Bernard Lewis is another example of someone qualified in Arabic who raises similar concerns.
How do you translate sorat Al Baqaras the chapter of the COW the verses of the spider or the Iron .Sorat Al NISSAA(women’s chpter ) stated the Christ Jesuse was not crucified that Allah send someone looked like him to be crucified.This deceiving statement blast Christianity from the foundation for 4 billion Christians believe Christ died on the cross and was risen on the 3rd.Day.The resurrection of Christ is the HEART of .Christianity..Islam execute the Muslim who leaves Islam ,Islam cuts thee hand of the thief gouges the eyes ,stone the adulteress ,flogs the lesbians and the gay these are barbaric punishment no Allah proves them,Islam gave birth to every terrorists ,every Jihadis so when they die Allah will give them in his paradise virgins to have sex nonestop eat figs grapes and dates drink milk,honey and WINES Sorat AL ANBBA,SORAT AL TOOR,SORAT MOHAMMED.
l forgive the one who call me kaffer..There is no true religion will allow him to curse other people.He believes in Allah who forces him to hate and kill his enemy .l believe in the divine GOD who teaches me to love and heal my enemy.
We are using the word Kafir in a positive context. This is not a Muslim blog. We are all kafir in that respect. No offence intended.
Above, a poster – Muslim or non-Muslim? – claims that noone can understand the Quran unless they read it in Arabic. RUBBISH. Arabic is not some special magical untranslateable language. The ‘poetry’ of course is lessened, but the ugly *intention* and meaning remains; kind of like having arsenic or strychnine (the jihad doctrine, the misogyny, the megalomania) presented in a plain porcelain dish (prose) rather than in fancy painted china (poetry). The existing translations are accurate enough to give a perfectly good idea of just where the likes of Islamic state are getting the blueprint for their nastiness – e.g. the seizure and rape of captive Yazidi girls and their use – and sale – as sex slaves. Incidentally, those persons who – like Australia’s Rev Dr Mark Durie, who is a trained linguist – *can* read the damn thing in Arabic have generally found that the hideousness and violence of what is being enjoined grow *worse* if one can get the full flavour of the Arabic. It is *more* vicious, aggressive and hateful in the original; the translations tend to water it down!
I’m sure jmsabbagh is a kaffir. His blog seems along the same lines as my own. He’s right to point out that the accusation “You can’t understand it in English” is very common. It’s nonsensical, but it’s common.
l forgive you for calling me K a f f e r .No true religion will allow you to curse people.You believe in Allah who force you to hate and kill your enemy.l believe in the true and divine GOD who teaches me to Love and Heal my enemy.l pray for you to open your heat for Love and forgiveness.May the Lord bless you and your family.
I’ve read the whole thing – N Dawood translation, and also the Yusuf Ali translation (Yusuf Ali being a 19th century Englishman who converted to Islam). Have also read Robert Spencer’s “Blogging the Quran” which has a *lot* of material from the standard authoritative Muslim quran commentaries, to show how *Muslims* read various passages. Spencer’s “Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Quran” and his “The Truth About Muhammad” which gives a good overview of mohammed’s deplorable career, based strictly on all the texts that Muslims themselves regard as canonical, are also helpful. Two western scholars, Wiliam Muir and A Guillaume, translated the canonical Sira of Ibn Ishaq, the “life” of Mohammed; I have a feeling they can be read online. The Hadiths are important – Bukhari and Muslim – because they contain the stories and sayings that authorise stoning of adulterers, and that explicitly authorise the killing of apostates, and that authorise the assassination of anyone – Muslim or non-Muslim – who criticises Islam, Muslims, Mohammed. They can be found online in English translation, as well.
I’ve never seen the collected or selected Hadith for sale anywhere. I suppose there’s a reason for that…
That’s right, the other books have to be understood as well because Muslims must understand his life and follow his way of doing things. That is a very key part of Islamic doctrine as I understand it. Those books also reveal the true reason for some of the statements in the Koran, and expose them for what they are – mostly justifications for whatever horrendous stuff he wanted to do at each point in his life. We’re all getting dragged more into this awful religion but its got to be done so we can put it into the dustbin of history where it belongs.
The Hadith collected into a whole can apparently make for 800 pages or more. I think I’ll look for an Islamophobic summary rather than seek out the texts in full. Robert Spencer and Gilles Kepel are usually good for that sort of thing.
Not that Gilles Kepel is especially Islamophobic of course. He nevertheless does a good job of reducing the mass of scholarship into a digestible size.
Reblogged this on the Assault of Nimbosa.